For those who teach that Pre-Tribulation is true, this is my answer.

       ONE of the best ways to Rip some one off is to say wonderful things, but don't mention the whole truth, just leave that other little bit out. Make sure you flash about statements and generalizations around like your strutting your stuff: he's the qualified one. Its preposterous to think that they could be wrong and someone could challenge them.
       Well I am glad to challenge them; I can see straight through their deception, and yes I am happy to call it so. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 2 Tim 3:13
      This Site is a direct challenge to their way; I am fed up with their methods. Bashing their straw men, then saying, well this is the only option left: this is their principle method for 2 Thess 2:7, saying well if all these others are wrong so this one must be right. This is faulty reasoning, based upon assumption. Attacking those who don't have some degree; well I am not ashamed of the fact that I have no degree. The Bible was written so that we all might know the truth, I too can study, and I too can read God's word. The truth is not in your interpretation of the Greek, Rome burnt whole Bibles these guys destroy it word by word. Can't you see that you attack the Bible when you rely on man's interpretation of the Greek words.The Greek and Hebrew are not 'wrong' but twisting out of it the best angle to suit your own preferences is wrong. This word here suits us better than this that other word.
   So much of what they teach is inference, assumption, presupposition, presumption, premise, personal belief, expectation, conjecture, speculation, surmise, guesses, theories, hypothesis, postulations, conclusions, suspicions, notions, impressions, fancies; guesswork, guessing, reckoning; and informal guesstimates, nothing more and nothing less, just to name a few. And I intend to prove this so!

      BEFORE you accept what they say, make sure you get their address and phone number so that when you find yourself suffering in the middle of the Tribulation, they can feed you and provide you those life presevering medications and let you sleep in their bed. You see, this is what happened in China, the missionaries told the Christians don't worry, when these terrible persecutions come you'll be 'raptured' away. Well they owe them many apologies because Jesus never came, but the horrors did and many Blasphemed God and turned from the faith. This is a documented fact that you will never ever see on a Pre-Trib web site or in their books why, because these historical facts shame them, and present historical fact, why this deception is so serious and why Jesus went to such great effort to warn us.

      THESE men are going to be responsible for one of the biggest con-jobs of all history, and they will pay, don't you worry. I truly believe that most of the folk who believe this lie are actually very sincere, but they are sincerely WRONG! Yet I also believe that there are those at the top who knowingly deceive, and my thrust is toward them. I wouldn't be surprised if they secretly question their beliefs, know certain errors, yet determindly keep promoting it. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 1 Tim 6:10. When they see that they have led millions and millions of Christians astray, leading them to such disaster and grief and ultimately blasphemy against the Saviour, they will know what it means to be pierced. They viciously attack men like Dave Mac Pherson, why, because he has proven and printed a book showing that there what must be (in my opinion) many deliberate 'typo' errors, neglecting to print the whole statements, plagerism, amongst other things in his book 'The Rapture Plot'. IN this book you will see how he has personally imformed them of their mistakes yet do nothing, are these the men you will put your trust in?

      In this site I wish to prove that;

  1. There is no such thing as Imminency
  2. The Restrainer is not the Holy Spirit, in fact this is blasphemy against him
  3. There is no such thing as a seven year Tribulation
  4. There is no reason to believe in a Third Temple, nor is there need to
  5. Revelation 3:10 does not promise an escape from the Tribulation
  6. No we are not 'appointed' wrath but we are appointed to tribulation
  7. The Stories of Noah, Lot and Enoch do not prove escape from the Tribulation
  8. Plus other things


       DO you think that this is not possible, well it is? I saw once where someone once said, "I don't know how they get past 2 Thess 2:7", you know, the famous 'he that letteth will let' passage. Well I have at least 10 reasons how; I guess he was so blindly indoctrinated that he won't even question his own ideals. The Bible says to prove all things, not accept just what you hear from what is supposed to be a reputable teacher. A teaching that teaches escape from the Tribulation sounds like a doctrine for itching ears to me.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. 2Tim 4:3-5 Notice, that it says "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine", and it has certainly come now, yet in the same passage ot tells us to "Endure afflictions".

My Introduction

      This is an introduction to my thoughts and reasons for the belief that our Lord Jesus Christ will come back at the end of the Tribulation, which is best called; The Blessed Hope. When I grew up I was taught this ridiculous theory, but even then I had questions about it; things just didn't seem to fit. Where were the things they claimed to be there? Then one day I was challenged on this idea by a friend in about 2006 and so I began investigating seriously the teachings of 'Pre-Tribulation', word for word passage for passage, the teaching that our Lord was coming back to take us to heaven before the 7 years of Tribulation, of which I had believed for many, many years. I thought that this would be easy to prove; couldn't he see the obvious plain teaching, wasn't he also raised in a church that taught this? But when I went over the passages to examine them critically believing them to be able to with stand it, and then prove this friend wrong; I became ashamed of the fact that I had been teaching others this 'guff'! I had, in my ignorance, perpetuated this rot to others in my complete blind sincerity.

     At first I thought, 'Post-Tribulation' has to be wrong, yet with an open mind, willing to accept what ever was so, no matter what the consequences, eventually I felt strongly that the arguments for Pre-Tribulation were really weak and more a 'forced opinion' amongst other things. Here I was teaching others this Pre-Trib theory, ignorantly believing it to be solidly supported in the scriptures, and it wasn’t! Surely all those folk I knew (including family and friends) who taught it couldn't be wrong, but they are!  But now at least, I have the chance to undo my wrong and warn others of this coming time.

      I am open minded about discussion on the subject and if you can supply solid proof that can be given contrary to my arguments I will seriously listen and change my stand on the matter. But if I prove Pre-Tribulation and Pre-wrath to be incorrect, DO YOU have the courage to change? Most likely, I think not. Because you have a fear of man, and pride is very strong, so don't bother to try and prove me wrong unless you are willling to change if your wrong.

      One of the best ways to deal with Pre-Tribulation is to put up each separate individual argument and prove it right or wrong in itself; just as if you would put up tin cans along a fence rail and shoot them off one at a time. If some points can be called into serious question or shown to be wrong, doesn't that say that further investigations are required on your part, or are you happy to believe whatever! Well most folks are.

     Many Pre-tribbers argue against post-tribulation by attacking some points then try to give the impression that it would be a good idea to avoid the rest; don't be seen with that crowd, yep, 'peer presure', even christians use it too. Why do I say this, because when one is approached with a passage that proposes a 'scriptural glitch' or something hard to understand, people tend to reject the whole idea because they think, "what about all these other points", Post Tribulation has to be in error because of all these other arguments for Pre-Trib seem to be right. Some folk knock down Post-Tribulation over silly and weak points and I know that we don't all agree on every point, but that does not mean Pre-Tribulation or the others are right either, 'don't throw the baby out with the bath water'.

      So one of the ways I am presenting my various arguments is to state each argument for Pre-Tribulation (particularly) and Pre-wrath and then break it down, (most of my arguments tackle Pre-Tribulation, therefore at times; Pre-Wrath and Mid-Tribulation). Or I will do a small verse by verse commentary showing that a passage doesn't represent any argument at all for its belief or that it has nothing to do with it and that it relates to something else etc. To make Pre-Tribulation work you need to swap events out of chronological order and create massive assumptions and greatly rely on special interpretation of symbolism. Just like Evolution, Pre-tribulation has its 'circular' reasoning too, and just like evolution this false doctrine has crept into the church.

      I believe that the idea of Pre-tribulation has its roots from Roman Catholicism (and their 'roots' go way, way back from there,) as it helps to hide their agenda and hides the truth about what they really are and what role they are playing in all this. It builds complacency in the church a sleepy lullaby, as why does it matter what you believe when you wont go through it, or, why even bother reading the book of Revelation when you aren't going to be here? Most of it doesn't involve me any way does it? Or "Pan-tribulation", meaning don't worry, it will all "Pan" out in the end.

     These bad attitudes do come from this form of teaching, as I had them myself and seen it in others, even Pastors.  A lot of western believers don't see the need to prepare for real persecution because they believe that they will be 'raptured', escape before it, wont they? Therefore they won't be ready when it does come, or when they realise that they are in the Tribulation, they'll think wicked thoughts against the one whom they thought saved them from this. (Their 'faith' will crumble and turn, apostasy). Let alone what they will think of those who have misled them with their books and movies! (Whilst making a packet along the way.)

      Some try to boost their beliefs by quoting the early ‘church fathers’ and if or when they mention something, it is usually very vague. Be warned, sometimes they appear to quote some ancient passage and say, "here you are, Pre-Trib was spoken of by some early church father" but refrain from mentioning one to two chapters before or later something that clearly speaks of Post-Tribulation. Anyway so what if they found lots of statements from back then, there was plenty of false doctrine taught back then too. By the way, I heard that they have only found one statement that seems to agree with their beliefs. But there are many, many more that speak of Post-Trib. But either way it doesn’t matter. It’s what the Scriptures say that counts.

      I have read since that it was first started from a vision from a 15-year-old girl from Scotland called Margret Macdonald, who said she had seen something not seen before. This I do tend to believe this but I don't believe that she is the total instigator behind Pre-Tribulation as it appears to be a joint thing between her, Edward Irving and others, for further details see Dave Macpherson work the 'The Rapture Plot'.

      Other than that, it appears that a Jesuit priest called Rabina Francesca, during the 15th century started it all off with a 'gap theory' between the 69th and 70th week.

Either way I don't really care, though I do find it interesting research, but IT IS WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS that counts and my decision is not founded upon these other things anyway.